So tired of whining

I am tired of of diaries and comments from cowards.

MyDD..continues to be a source of allegedly...well meaning.."advice". The Obama Campaign should be doing "this".
The Obama Campaign is not doing "this".
If posters are so fuckin' worried about a McCain election, why are you not contributing some of your precious typing time to the Obama campaign?

I can guarantee you, if you do, exposure to the most finely tuned grassroots organization you have ever seen...and it is just getting ramped up..Does anyone really believe it was NOT the Obama ground effort that led to his victory in our Primary?

Change requires more than complaining...requires more than signs and bumper stickers...
It requires personal physical effort...
I regret nothing concerning my multiple arrests  for non-violent opposition.
One is here..
..and yes I wore my colors in the pic
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_409955 7

of course I am heavily involved in what will take place in opposition questions that will be raised here in Denver...

But I and my wife..and others are also involved with the Colorado Obama campaign...

Being passive(voting is not enough)has resulted in..well what we have now...

"Get out of the way, if you can't lend a hand"

So I guess I am saying STFU if your only contribution is typing on a keyboard...it is possible to type here..and lend a physical effort..
 



Display:


You're no fun. (2.00 / 11)

How is MyDD supposed to make any money if we spend time in the real world?


by catfish2 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:49:25 PM EST

I come here.... (2.00 / 4)

....so I can pretend that I'm in control of my life :D


by soyousay on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 09:56:51 PM EST

Re: So tired of whining (2.00 / 2)

I believe that irony is the fulcrum of our lives...
The gentile humor by two that I have had cross words with..only reaffirms my belief..
so for the first time..
my mojo to soyousay and catfish..
(We still disagree on a lot of shit ok?)

"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:04:39 PM EST

Dude, I am so jealous of you. (none / 0)

I regret nothing concerning my multiple arrests  for non-violent opposition.
One is here..
..and yes I wore my colors in the pic
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_409955 7
 

Jealous and admiring.  Maybe I should wear a shirt, next time, that says "Too chicken to arrest me?  Cluck, cluck, cluck!"

I would love to rec your diary, but I can't.  There are too many meta-diaries like this making the rec list.  Thank you for saying something I agree with wholeheartedly.


by Dumbo on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:22:59 PM EST

hhhmm... (2.00 / 3)

this diary raises an interesting point about the netroots.  

but i suspect that what you omitted to consider is that some people have personal, familial and work responsibilities thus amking it impossible to involve themselves on such a time-consuming level.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 10:44:02 PM EST

Re: hhhmm... (2.00 / 1)

Well, that and many here are already working full time to get Obama elected. Doesn't mean we can't criticise him on a blog that takes a critical look at campaigns and elections. True believers who refuse to look at what works and what doesn't do us no good.


by souvarine on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:01:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Al @ The Field agrees with you (2.00 / 4)

I'm personally loving this: As a longstanding community organizer, journalist and foot soldier on the left (with the scar tissue upon scar tissue and a string of hard-won victories to prove it) my frustration with the ineffectiveness of so many that consider themselves also of the left in the United States in recent years has boiled over. I am so sick of having to be lumped in with those masturbatory practitioners of bad performance art that they call activism. Really. I had to leave the country 11 years ago to find better change-agents worth reporting on.

And suddenly, along comes a political candidate inside the United States - a category of person from the last place I expected this to come from - giving a nationwide teach-in and lesson-in-civics about how to effectively organize for change.

Here's an unspoken little secret: The success of Obama's campaign challenges those that still subscribe to broken patterns of activism - whether the zombie-like attempt to repeat the completely coopted street protest tactics of 1968 (or of 1999) or the academic purity troll approach that complains without even attempting to organize real people - and is driving various of them absolutely crazy with envy.

To every fellow and sister of the left that, practically on automatic pilot, bemoans that Obama has taken center stage when it comes to organizing for change in the United States (I've heard your whispers about "We can't wait to see Al disillusioned in 2009! That'll show him!" as if you're actually hoping for bad news), I say: Show me the better plan.

Show me how you are effectively organizing real people. Show me how you stopped the Clinton machine in the 1990s from auctioning off the Democratic Party (oops, too late!). Show me how you stopped the war in Iraq. Show me a single political battle you that have won with your tired old tactics and "framing" of "issues." Then I'll take your complaining more seriously.

The skinny kid with the big ears that don't look like the men on dollar bills is doing, right here, right now, what none of you complaining about him have accomplished: He's built a nationwide grassroots organization - and trained thousands in the nuts and bolts of how to do it on the local level - in a way that facilitates simultaneous horizontal organization and that can sustain the kind of pluralism that says: hey, you don't like the way I'm doing it? Do it yourself then!


by upstate girl on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 11:54:00 PM EST

why is that so many... (2.00 / 2)

obama supporters - meaning our friend al - cannot effectively analyze or argue the merits of obama without taking swipes at the clintons?

it really makes them look ridiculous and shows their partisanship lives and dies with a particular candidate rather than party.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 12:40:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why is that so many... (none / 0)

Why is it that Clinton supporters focus on one sentence out of dozens to complain about? It's as if there is nothing worth commenting on unless it involves the Clintons.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 12:51:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

ah the meta argument. (none / 0)

here's the deal - ill answer your question once you answer mine.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 12:57:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ah the meta argument. (2.00 / 1)

Okay, I'll answer your question. There are an awful lot of Democrats that feel the Clintons sold out the Democratic Party in the 90's. I'm not one of them, but I know the arguments. DADT, the DLC, failed health care reform, etc...

Whether you agree with them or not, they have a valid argument. There are equally valid arguments against that view.

Now why is it that someone can write a fairly long diary and get dumped on for one negative comment about the Clintons? Is it a cult of personality thing? You didn't address one thing in that quoted article except for the comment about the Clintons.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 01:05:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

because the whole tone of the quote... (2.00 / 1)

is intended for anyone that DARES to question obama.  and i daresay that the audience for which this intended are not people that will appreciate being scolded for both their support of the clintons and the accusations that they are hypocrites - as i assure you that is for whom this is directed.

if you dont get that from the article, it might illustrate the schism in many democrats as a result of the primary runs far deeper than i thought.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 01:17:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: because the whole tone of the quote... (none / 0)

I wouldn't take Al Giordano as illustrative of much about the Democratic party or Barack Obama. Any campaign has hangers on who project their own hates and dreams onto the candidate. Obama had to tear down Bill and Hillary Clinton to win the primary, and he was the one candidate in the primary willing to go far enough to win, so inevitably people who hate Bill or Hillary Clinton gravitated toward him. Few Obama supporters, and few on Obama's staff, hate the Clintons. The level of animus is way overstated on the blogs and in the press.

The vast majority of Clinton supporters and Democrats will vote for Barack Obama, so despite what some PUMA sites claim their is no real risk of schism in the Democratic party. The risk is that Obama will not do as will with women, hispanics and working class people as he must to win, and that his new coalition will not be enough to fill in the gap.


by souvarine on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:02:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

yes... (none / 0)

didnt know much about him and just did a google search.  found this from during the primary:

Clinton and her shrinking band of paranoid holdouts wail and scream about all those evil people who have `turned' on Clinton and are no longer `honest power brokers' or `respectable voices' or whatnot, wearing blinders to reality, talking about silly little `strikes' when in reality, Clinton is planning a far more drastic, destructive and debilitating civil war." Al Giordano, whose blogging about the ground war on RuralVotes' "The Field" was one of the sensations of the primary season, was even more curt in his post: "A well cultivated blog--just like any social garden, as Quentin Crisp liked to say--eventually has to be weeded from time to time, and that's the long and the short of what happened over at DKos, which, in the few days since a small group took its game board and left in a huff, has been a much more interesting and creative place without them. May `Alegre' and company stop being so professionally triste, and instead build, with their own sweat and blood, a place for themselves on the Internet, rather than trying to leech off somebody else's labor." That had to sting. Nobody likes being called a leeching weed.

nothing like the progressive ideals of inclusion.  seriously the democratic party has found the perfect advocate for unity!


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:52:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ah the meta argument. (2.00 / 3)

No, it isn't a cult of personality thing.  It's a gratuitous cheap shot thing, that happens all too often. Do you think the point could have been made without mentioning the Clintons at all?  I'm pretty sure it could. If that's the case, then what was the point of the negative crap?  Did it add something vital to the article? What was the motivation?

Canadian gal was exactly on target.  He can praise Obama without trashing the Clintons.  It's very easy, I do it all the time.  He chose not to, so he gets called on it.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 01:18:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ah the meta argument. (none / 0)

I've attached this to your comment, but it's intended to answer all of the comments above.

It seems to me that the same people who jump to the defense of someone who is getting flack for criticizing Obama complain about any negative comment about the Clintons. They are quick to rush to the defnese of someone who writes an entire diary that trashes Obama, but then complain about another diary that has one small sentence that suggests something negative about Hillary or Bill. It's a double-standard that is apparent to anyone except them.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 11:16:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ah the meta argument. (none / 0)

No. People are free to criticize anyone they like, whether that be Obama, Hillary or anyone else.  If someone write a diary saying they don't like what Democrat X has to say about this or that, I'm absolutely cool with that.  I may comment and either agree or disagree. But they certainly have the right to say it.

What's not cool is gratuitous drive-by cheap shots. If someone is talking about some subject that really has nothing to do with Obama and then uses that as an excuse to take a cheap shot, that not OK. Hit pieces are not OK. Lies are not OK.

The comment we're talking about falls into category number 1 above.  It was totally irrelevant to what he was discussing, he just wanted to take a shot at the Clintons. Not cool.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 03:43:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ah the meta argument. (none / 0)

Sure it was a drive-by sniping. Big deal. We see plenty of them every day against Obama. Many of the people that complain about the ones against Clinton try to defend the people that throw them at Obama.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 07:40:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

and as i wait... (none / 0)

ill give you one hint - and its in big bold letters above...

show me how you stopped the Clinton machine in the 1990s from auctioning off the Democratic Party (oops, too late!)


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 01:00:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Al @ The Field agrees with you (2.00 / 1)

Now that is hilarious. As one of those who helped the Clinton "machine" take the White House in the 90s, and won many battles, I derive no small satisfaction from the number of Clinton alumni helping Obama win now. Obama's ground tactics are very familiar, and given who is working for him and what they do that is no surprise. I argue he has gone much further right on policy than he needs to, but that is who Obama is, a conservative Democrat. Watching "activists" who think they are defeating the establishment help a conservative, corporate friendly, pro-military Democrat win the White House is one of the most surreal things I've seen in my history in politics.


by souvarine on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 12:47:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Al @ The Field agrees with you (2.00 / 1)

I disagree with your assessment of Obama's political leanings and I think you're wrong. But you know that.

That said, taking the point of view that you are right, I'd say that it's pretty surreal on the other side as well. Republicans know full well that McCain lacks the kind of devotion to their craft. Once he's elected, he can and will do whatever he pleases. A lot of it will be destructive and will kill progressive platforms, but he's NOT going to just roll over on things like ethics reform, taxation, probably even energy policy once he doesn't have to fight for them anymore. Not with a Democratic congress he needs to work with to get things done. Mccain's too pragmatic to create and hold a standoff for no damn reason. He's a douchebag, but part of why is that we know he's lying on a number of areas.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 02:35:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Al @ The Field agrees with you (none / 0)

A lot of conservatives thought Reagan went soft as President, but they still came out for him in '84. Republicans are very pragmatic and reliable voters, so I don't find their support for McCain, who is pretty damn conservative, strange.


by souvarine on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 03:21:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So tired of whining (2.00 / 2)

This site sometimes seems to me like it's crossed over into the "post-rational" universe Rachel Maddow warned about.

It's truly surreal to see the self-importance and ego of so many armchair pundits who've supposedly spent a lifetime working on political campaigns, to whom everything is all so clear, and yet who have little better to do than spend hours and hours bashing their keyboards on a third-tier website. I'm also a bit amazed at the utter brashness of those who seem to have cowed the admins and membership into accepting their presence on a Democratic site despite the fact that they're posting here in bad faith, obsessively attacking Democrats and overtly supporting the republican candidate.

I don't consider myself the most politically astute or savvy person around, but I can usually spot sharp minds and good intentions, and there are fewer of both here than there should be. Too much of what goes on is juvenile playground politics for lulz conducted by internet addicts.

On the other hand, maybe I can be encouraged by the lack of quality contributions: it means the really talented people are out in the real world making a difference instead of sitting here griping and taunting each other.


"This victory alone is not the change we seek -- it is only the chance for us to make that change." -- Nov. 4, 2008
by BobzCat on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 01:11:12 AM EST

Re: So tired of whining (none / 0)

My late night rant was based on a basic frustration.
There is no one here who could not provide 4 hours a week to SOME campaign.
One of the reasons we lose is so many are simply not active..
I am putting in only about 4-6 hours a week in the evening for Obama.
I am giving 3-4 hours each Saturday to a candidate for CO State Senate that I won't be able to vote for. Why?
Because this election year is a tipping point in so many ways.

I am involved with Alliance for a Real Democracy.
You will see many of our political actions such as
"Funk the War" "Tent State" IVAW ..Code Pink and many more during the Convention here in Denver.

I do not have to go all out for 365 days..
Wouldn't be able to do that.
However,; I will do all I can for a lousy 90+ days. There are reasons but no excuses for any
political minded person to limit ourselves either cheering or booing while sitting on the sidelines..

Something soft
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ9qWpa2r Ig

Something a little harder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dr05tXkt So


"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Sun Aug 03, 2008 at 10:18:30 AM EST


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